Welcome to today’s episode of true to form with your host president and co-founder of crystal clear, highly regarded speaker. And to time inc 500 entrepreneur, Tim Sawyer, true to form is a podcast that highlights leaders making headway in the ascetic anti-aging and elective medical industry. Learn from the experts to discover the secrets of success and pitfalls to avoid when growing all aspects of your elective medical practice. This week’s episode is brought to you by Candella, a leading US-based global medical aesthetic device company engineering technology that enables practices to provide advanced solutions for a broad range of medical aesthetic applications, including hair removal, wrinkle reduction, tattoo removal, women’s health treatments, facial resurfacing, traumatic and surgical scar treatment body contouring improving the skin’s appearance through the treatment of benign vascular and pigmented lesions and the treatment of acne leg, veins, and cellulite. Please join me in welcoming your host, the authentic, the transparent Tim Sawyer. Hello, welcome.
It’s true to form the podcast that connects you to the people technology and hot topics that shape the elective medical community brought to you by crystal clear. And this week sponsored Candela, the leading US-based medical aesthetic device company. I’m your host, Tim Sawyer to our returning guests. Welcome back to our first time listeners. We appreciate you joining us and encourage you to become a subscriber in our community of more than 13,000 unique listeners. We just Crested Denmark. In the last episode we spoke with leading healthcare attorney Berta, Brad Adato, who dives in the most common compliance mistakes practice owners are making today. If you’ve missed it, you got to check it out and we’ve got a special treat as always. We’ve got a good friend and someone who’s visiting us for the second time on the program. We’re grateful to have them. Dr. Lewis Mount marker is the founder of the American Academy of facial aesthetics maintains a cosmetic and general practice in Bay village, Ohio.
He is an internationally recognized lecturer and author known for his entertaining and comprehensive teaching style. He has vast experience in total facial aesthetics and it’s taught tens of thousands of healthcare professionals in the areas of smile design and aesthetics and facial injectable therapy. Dr. Amma’s also mastered the Academy of general dentistry, fellow of the international association of dental, facial aesthetics, and a fellow of the world clinic, laser Institute, and a visiting lecturer at a number of universities. Dr. Malik marker. Welcome back to the program. Hey, thank you very much, Tim. It’s so nice to be with you again. I am so happy that you’re here today because you are truly a beacon of light and hope in what for many has become somewhat of a dark time. And seriously, you’ve got a little bit of a different viewpoint on this because unlike a lot of people, a F E is actually back doing live treatments, is that correct?
Yeah, we are back and actually they do call me a bright light, but we’ll see, we’ll save that for another time. Uh, but the, uh, uh, we are back. Yeah, we, I mean, that’s what we do is injectable live patient training, um, all kinds of levels, our entire curriculum. And we have now been back for a few months, as soon as offices were allowed to reopen. We, uh, we started back on our life patient training and with obviously all the, the new standards and, and the CDC guidelines and because our live patient trainings pretty much run just like, you know, people treat their patients in the office. So it’s just, uh, uh, we go to the exact same standard. So it’s really been incredible. And I think it’s surprised nearly everybody that is in the facialist static arena, whether it’s a med spa, a dentist, a physician nurse, nurse practitioner, PA that has an aesthetic practice, how readily patients have come right back to their pay to, to their practices. And I think I may, I think, you know, w we’re all glad to be on, on this side of, uh, of, uh, reopening, um, but it’s really been much better than I think anybody could have possibly imagined, uh, for all that. And we see that also reflected now in people and professionals coming for live patient training, whether it’s foundational, whether they’re getting into it for the first time or whether it is, uh, advanced training, because I mean, people are wanting services and there are a lot of reasons for that.
Yeah. And I mean, you and I talked the other day that there’s great news coming out of the filler companies, the Botox folks. I mean, you see huge volume in that. Right,
Right now. I mean, right now it is, like I said, it’s just been incredible. You ask most aesthetic providers again, no matter what kind of professional they are, what kind of office they have. Um, and they have been absolutely slammed, uh, with patients. I mean, I know a number, a number of offices that, you know, have tried to limit the, uh, you know, the amount of new patients, but they’re getting calls and calls, you know, it’s a different world. And there’s no question that some of it has to do with the fact that when we initially came back to our offices reopen, again, we weren’t seeing as many as many patients during the day because we figured, you know, we’re getting used to a new system, um, getting news to use the new guidelines, but now that we’re used to it. So now many practices are saying almost the same number of patients that they have a day and they are booked up for weeks.
And what’s interesting is, and so, uh, this is consumer driven, you know, and then I’ll get to the injectable companies from what prior discussions with them. But you know, what we then see is, uh, we’ve seen not just, it’s not been just the patients that, you know, where everyone was shut down for three months, they’d been waiting for their Botox and, you know, for their fillers, for whatever services, they were going to have new patients. And I think that’s what surprised everybody. Then you get that poll through. Well, if my offices are busy, then they are ordering, uh, more neurotoxins, more fillers. I mean, they’re ordering all those. And I think when you talk to the injectable companies, they are also, I mean, nothing less than super surprised at the demand that we’ve seen. These have been some of the biggest and strongest months, uh, in, in the last few months when it comes to injectable sales.
Unbelievable. Now I was curious about something because you’ve got a big association, thousands of members and, um, a large percentage of those, not all, but a large percentage of those are dentists. Now, how did the dentist fair? Um, you know, April, may, June, they were doing, were they considered essential depending on the type of work that they were doing and how did that impact the, what they were doing in the aesthetic side of it?
So they were not considered essential in the fact that they could be open, you know, just for all treatments all the time, in terms of, uh, in terms of dentistry and dentistry and med spas, it’s amazing. The, the, those kinds of practices are very, very similar because now if you consider, you know, even before COVID, and even to today that, you know, approximately 70% of the, the services provided in the dental office are our elective services. You know, obviously in the medical spa, it’ll be a hundred percent our elective services, but 70% is a huge chunk. So, you know, from that perspective, dentistry was not in the central and they were closed down. They were allowed to see emergency patients and patients that were coming in for pain infection, those kinds of things. But I think most dentists were very much limiting their services to just getting patients out of pain, uh, for all of that. But they were, they were essentially shut down for a good three months, uh, for all of that. So that’s how, that’s how it worked in dentistry.
And it, the, the other question I had, so have you seen, um, you know, we’re just starting to emerge from this. So the typical member, whether they’re a med spa owner or they’re, you know, they’ve got a dentist, they’re a dentist, and they’re looking to add med spa services. How has this whole time period impacted new folks coming to AFE and saying, Hey, I want to get into this. Has that started to pick up or what’s the impact of that?
Yeah, again, I think it’s, it’s just huge. And there are a few reasons for that. Um, number one, as you know, and it’s funny as, as, uh, then as dental offices started to Oprah reopening back up. So those dental offices that were doing injectables, many of them, I know many of Aurora AFE members all like that only once only restarted the practices doing injectables because in dentistry, obviously there’s a lot of aerosols. There’s a lot of high-speed drilling and, you know, that was, nobody knew, you know, no really people didn’t really know how to negotiate that just yet, uh, for all of that. So they started off doing injectables and then they saw they were really busy. Um, so I think that opened a lot of dentists eyes, uh, that were thinking about getting into injectables for, you know, for a while and said, you know, I really got to start doing this.
And then I think on the medical side, on the physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, we’ve seen a huge increase in that as well. I mean, our courses have been full and we’ve actually added locations, uh, in the coming months for this, but on the medical side, I think, uh, physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, PAs, I think a lot of them and that, and this, we saw this happening a few years ago, but I think that, that it is very possible that post COVID, this has pushed people even more so, like they, you know, they, it was a very stressful time if you were a medical provider and they’re looking to, you know, still say, stay in medicine or nursing, but may baby something that’s, you know, a little less stressful than, uh, than working at the hospital and seeing patients that are sick all the time and that kind of thing.
So I think that actually accelerated that. I mean, we’re getting, we’re getting calls left. And right now from physicians and nurses who really are, you know, they, they don’t want a career change outside of medicine, but they really want to look at a, a discipline that might be a little easier for them to handle. That’s a little less stressful at least part-time, but, or going into full-time or seeing what the possibilities are. So I think from both sides, we have seen this really, really start to accelerate. And then again, they see, you know, they, they see, or they know their friends who are nurses or nurse practitioners that may have a med spa. And they were saying, well, you guys may have been shut down for a little while, but you’re coming back to a completely different kinds of medicine than what we’re used to. And without all the stress that we have now, the medical spas, dental offices have different kinds of stresses. Um, but certainly, uh, I mean, we are seeing an influx of that in the same way that we’re seeing an influx of new patients coming into the office offices are too. And there’s lots of reasons for that.
And for those folks who are, you know, like you said, I think there’s a lot of, uh, there’s gotta be some life evaluating going on for a lot of people. Um, so tell us a little bit about, so whether you’re a dentist, that’s thinking about adding aesthetic services or, uh, a nurse, like you said, nurse practitioner, PA that’s, that’s a little bit looking to make a change. What’s the path that you guys take them down. And can you talk about some of the resources that you offer at AFE to help those people in that transition? Because if it can be a little intimidating, I imagine.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely correct. It can be really intimidating for that, like any, like any kind of a change. So, and it’s good that you split it up because there are different, you know, there are different levels of this. So let’s, let’s stick with dentists for dentists. Um, it’s actually easier because they’ve got an existing practice. Um, they have gotten, like I said, a lot of dentistry already as elective. They’re used to talking to patients about paying without insurance, um, and doing whitening and porcelain veneers and implants. So there there’s a lot of aspects where for a dentist, the transition could be a lot easier because this is literally just adding another service to their office and another elective aesthetic service to their office, where they already are set up with everything else. They just need to learn this new skill and then have some guidance as to how the market, when it comes to physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, um, you know, this may be a complete change from an insurance-based practice from, uh, you know, working for a hospital, I suppose now to try and to work for yourself.
So we, we, we have a lot of resources. We have mentoring, uh, for a lot of those, those professionals. So we really have different things for different people, but what we really have, and this is where the AC shines and is so much different than any other program like this out there is that we, first of all have certification courses because so many of the, the programs offered out there are not certification courses for, uh, neurotoxins, for fillers, for PDL threads, which are really such an up-and-coming, uh, injectable right now. And that really helps you with your, your regulatory boards and helps you with liability. Insurance helps you with all of that. And we’ve got a level one to level two level three, and then master’s courses and specialty courses in eyes and lips and different kinds of things like that. So it’s a real curriculum that people go through.
But I think the shining star of the, uh, of the AFE really is the resources that we have. I mean, the support that we have, I mean, we have got a team. We just have, we have a, a, a, a really, a special team that only helps people get started and really kind of drags him by the nose and says, okay, now that you’ve got drained, you need to do this. You need to get this, you know, we want you doing after, uh, after one of our live patient trainings, we want them treating patients within the first few days, because we know that is how they will be the most successful. We’ve got a whole team that’s dedicated just doing that in addition to our 50 plus faculty that, uh, are just always available. And we’ve got, uh, our own forum community, um, our own member forums, and that’s a tremendous resource.
So people can post questions, case presentations. In other words, the, the way we’re really giving everybody else is we don’t train you and then leave you on your own. And, and, you know, if you need help, you’ll run to YouTube. And God only knows what you’ll find. There. We are literally there every step of the way and different professionals need different mentoring and different role models. Um, whether again, it’s physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, or dental professionals. So we’ve got our faculty is made up of everybody. So we can literally, we, uh, we, we are really dedicated to everybody’s success because the clinical part you can learn and where sir, you know, certainly that’s almost easier than the practice management part. And then I’m ready. And that’s, that’s where crystal clear really comes in all the resources that you give these kinds of practices and helping them market and be successful and run their practices. And you know, that, that is almost if not as much difficult, difficult for a lot of people as the clinical part.
Yes it is. And I had, I, you said something and, and sometimes I hear some scuttlebutt in the community and I want you to address it because I’m glad to have you, how do you respond to folks who say that there aren’t any true certification programs who needs that w what is cause to me that seems a little not right. And also there’s a lot of benefits associated with getting those certifications. Can you talk about that? Right. Absolutely.
And so this is, and I know I don’t, I don’t know why, and I think this is to the detriment and why aesthetic medicine has had probably the most difficult time getting the kind of recognition from the rest of the medical community. That it’s a real, I mean, it’s real, I mean, it’s a real discipline in medicine, and I think we’ve come a long way in that. And I think part of that was, um, initially everybody thought that, Oh, if you’re gonna, you know, just get into Botox, you’re just going to be squirt and Botox and everybody, it’s not real medicine. Um, you know, and it’s really, it really was looked down upon for a very long time, but we’ve seen it really come into a real discipline. So like any medical discipline, but still, for some reason, even today, um, like any medical discipline, there are real certification courses.
There’s real training courses that of course has to have a real curriculum. That of course is under recognized by the medical and medical nursing, uh, you know, dental, uh, you know, licensing boards across the country that are recognizable to them. That there’s a real path there there’s, there was a real path, there was a foundation there was advanced training and that kind of thing, somehow this exists to a large part in aesthetic medicine. Then I think to its detriment is, you know, I don’t know, like physicians, nurses, dentists think, well, I’m just going to go learn it from Joe down the street. You know, they’ve got a lot of Instagram followers, you know, they don’t have any real CME. They don’t have a real curriculum. They’ve got maybe a good personality and some followers on Instagram. That must be okay. I mean, there, there is, there is not a week that goes by, um, because the AFE is a real resource to, again, all the licensing boards and we’ve dealt with most of them in medicine and dentistry, um, where we get in the email and, and, you know, there’s been a patient complaint on a provider that automatically triggers where the medical dental or nursing board, uh, and investigation.
And then the first question they asked somebody, if there was a complaint about a neurotoxin or filler or anything else, uh, that may or may not be the provider’s fault, but that’s irrelevant patient complaints. They’ve got to investigate the first question, they’ll ask a physician. Then this nurse is, well, you know, you’re okay. You’re given, you’re given Botox. Where did you go ahead and get drained? Well, you know, I, I, I met Sally on Instagram and I went to her officer. She gave him to my office to train me and, and like, I mean, they’ve even told me that it’s ridiculous. I mean, they, they laugh at that. That’s not, that’s not anything anybody can point to these real training, like any other discipline in medicine, right. Or nursing or dentistry, that’s where real certification comes in. So it’s a fallacy to think for any medical professional that no, yeah.
You know, anyone can learn to do Botox. It’s like nothing else. It’s become a real discipline. And certainly those that have been in it for a long time, and really, I think anybody that has a med spa, anybody that, that, you know, wants to deliver this ethically and morally and wants to do a great job for patients recognizes the fact that they re need a real certification training that they can show to their patients. And that’s, you know, great for, you know, proving your worth through your budget. Right. Just great from a marketing perspective or just from a, a qualification perspective, but also, I mean, God forbid anybody ever gets called, um, into a regulatory board. You need someone behind you. And we’ll, we certainly go to the back for prior attendees and for our members, because if anybody ever, you know, calls us and say, you know, well, can you give us a copy of their certification?
What’s the curriculum they took. Uh, we have that all, whereas other people will not have that. And that is your, your, your case is pretty much done with, if the first question they ask you, and that’s always, the first question is where did you learn to do this? And I got nothing. You’ve got nothing behind you other than, you know, well, you know, the, this person on Instagram train me and that’s it. Yeah. You’re, you’re finished. I mean, you are now behind the eight ball and they will take sanctions against you and do all kinds of things saying you never really had training. How are you providing these services? There is not another area of medicine, nursing or dentistry where there’s this kind of wild West approach by professionals saying, yeah, I can imagine if, imagine if someone said, yeah, I learned breast augmentations from the guy down the street, you know, that’s, I mean, that, that would, it would be absurd, right? I mean, I worked in heart surgery from running. I have watched a couple of YouTube videos and I learned how to do it. I mean, it’s absurd, but it’s stag. Medicine’s a real discipline now. And I think most of the people listening would really agree with that.
Yeah. And, and I think, and, and I’m constantly talking with people who are trying to put projects together and I’m thinking about it really on my own too, is it feels to me like at AFE, essentially does this, right. Is you’ve got to provide, there’s gotta be a uniform set of standards or universal principles that we need to apply to the whole industry, because if not, then overregulation is guaranteed. Right. So it seems like to me, what AFE is doing is a proactive approach to what, what we don’t want government to do is to say, and now you have to do X, Y, and Z. And if I was a provider, I would find great comfort in the fact that knowing if I had a problem, I could say, Hey, listen, I, I did these three things and I trained with this organization and this was their reputation.
And, uh, I’d feel pretty good about that. So any anybody who’s listening guys, um, not that we want to turn this into a commercial for AFE, but it is a great idea, you know, to, uh, make sure that you’ve got the appropriate training and education. So by the way, not just in the event of a problem, but obviously that’s a big issue, but also, um, use it in your marketing and, and on the website that, and it’s a differentiator for yourself. So I think it’s really good what you’re doing. And then the other question I had is, um, I know you’ve got this really cool program. We worked on it for a little bit and, um, for, for listeners who went and enjoyed it and would love to hear about them. Have you given much more thought to your, uh, world-class training visit training in the MBA programs?
Sure. Well, let me just go back. One more thing on, on the, um, on the certification part, we actually were one of the first ones to put together a facialist studies curriculum for medicine and for dentistry. And, uh, we put it out to all of the regulatory boards, probably about 10, 11 years ago. And we updated every couple of years. We’re about to start the next round of updating it now, especially, you know, with COVID and that kind of thing. Um, just to beef up some of the, the, the newer standards associated with that. So, I mean, you’re right. A real curriculum has been missing from this, but we’ve been working on it now with regulatory boards for, for many, many years, uh, for all of that. So, I mean, I appreciate, I mean, we everybody’s support, I mean, real certification is really important and there’s a legal liability too.
I mean, there’s no, there’s no question about that. So, uh, but last, we kind of mentioned before the practice management part and the business part is a big issue because everybody wants to build a practice. Um, some people are coming in fresh from, you know, a hospital environment, or they’ve never had their own practice before, but even those that have had their own practice really want to go ahead and try to transition. And I’ve really tried to build that as the estate part of their practice. And that’s why we started. And you guys have been very involved and we appreciate the partnership there, the med spa business Academy. Um, and then obviously COVID hit and it’s very hard to go ahead and put, you know, 50, a hundred people into a room that’s, they’re going to sit for a day or two of lectures all for all of that.
So yes, we’ve had, we have had, you know, we, we were blessed because we actually started on the yeah, well, while everybody was scrambling now to start virtual and on-demand training, we actually, we’ve been doing on demand draining in the AFE, uh, since 2014. So we’ve been pretty much way, way ahead of the pack. And we have a non demand med spa business, uh, Academy training that is fully on demand, but we are also now going to start, uh, doing some live virtual courses there as well, and kind of doing a blend. Everyone talks about a blend of education now. Um, but you know, and I think we’re, we’re reworking some things right now, um, to get that back up and running. I mean, because unfortunately we’ve seen then certainly you’ve seen this too, Tim, uh, with crystal clear and, and, uh, and what’s going on in the industry, in the med spa industry.
You like any industry, those businesses that were not well-run those med spas or dental offices that were not well-run, some of them did not survive, but shut down the three months. Um, and those who that are well-run or Elise, you know, had made an attempt to really put together a business plan, put some thought into how they go ahead and their systems and processes, um, they’ve survived. And at this point they are, they’re really thriving for all of that. So we’re going to do, we’re going to, we’re gonna kind of, you know, rework the med spa business Academy right now, and be able to make it much more accessible, um, because it’s hard to go to a physical location right now, and that may be the case for, you know, the next six to 12 months also. So, um, we’re definitely going to bring it, we’re going to bring it to you or make it much more readily accessible to everybody, but we also, you’ve got to have that interactive training and that’s why our live virtual sessions, I think, are going to be a very interactive and we really want to give back to this medical and dental community that is really into aesthetics.
So it is going to be for really just a nominal fi um, to really get into this because we want to make our sessions available to really everybody. So I don’t want to.. The moment while I have you for those who are listening, what’s the best way. If they’re interested in looking at some of the live trainings, where can they go to find that information?
They can go to the tech to make it really easy. They can go to AA F E training.com. So a F E training.com. We’ll make it really easy to go on their website. It’s a lot easier than spelling facial aesthetics, that org, but that will, that will take them straight there. And then they can see all the different options that we have, whether it’s foundational or whether it’s advanced master specialty courses. I mean, all the different things that we have included the courses going on in August. What, I’m sorry, you have courses going on in August, we’ve got three to five locations going on every single week. I mean, this week we’re going to be in Chicago and Cleveland in Portland. I’m not free, I think, in Las Vegas. So we have, we have, I mean, we we’re, we’re pretty much back to our full, full schedule. I mean, so we, I mean, you know, unless there is a breakout here or there and something gets shut down at the last second, uh, we are pretty much back to our full, full schedule.
That’s amazing. And I tell you what, as we wind down, um, you have, I meant what I said at the beginning. You have been, uh, a source of light and inspiration. And to say that you have unbridled enthusiasm would be an understatement. And, uh, I always know when I’m feeling down where to go to get my fix of we’re going to kill it together. And you you’ve been that guy. And you can tell in your organization, man, you’ve got to, you’ve got a really nice, uh, business that you’ve been building for a long time. And you guys have been innovating all along. Like you said, 2014, you were out in front, um, and PR and bringing credibility and universal standards to our industry. That’s, uh, you’re filling a big gap and I know people are grateful for that. And I encourage folks to look into the training. I can’t believe you have that many going on. It’s absolutely unbelievable. Now, before we let you go, is there anything else that you have to add that you’re excited about over the next couple of weeks and months?
Um, I am really excited about what we call the zoom boom, and that is, you know, the fact and that’s, and that’s really something really that, that, I think that’s the key. That’s the thing that really amazed all of us was the, the patients have been people, consumers have been looking at themselves and again, they’re going to be doing this for, for the next, we don’t know how long, but you can imagine six to 12 months. Uh, people are meaning by zoom. They’re looking. And it’s funny when, when you go through a zoom meeting, how about you, Tim? Uh, but a lot of people when they go to a zoom meeting and they turn on their video and they’re watching everybody, most of the time, they’re looking at themselves 100%, right? And so many people have decided they don’t like what they see. And that is why we’re seeing this huge influx of people coming in.
And, and it’s an interesting thing. I was just talking to somebody before about this as well. They, you know, we’ve been locked down, we’ve been shut down, you know, vacations or scars or scarce now, um, where people are saving money. And they do have, not everybody, obviously a lot of people are hurting, but those that do have some elective dollars that they would normally spend on vacations around this, around that they’re now looking to spend it on themselves. And I think that is what we call the zoom. Boom. And patients are coming in new patients, current patients they’re coming in for more and more services. It’s amazing. They can hide behind a mask. We hear this from patients all the time. I’m happy to get work on my lower face because I’m going to be wearing a mask if I’m bruised for a little bit.
That’s okay. Um, because they’re wearing a mask, it’s incredible how this, you know, how this has all happened. So, you know, because of that, and we see that now aesthetics really is a sustaining industry. And in difficult times, certainly in good times, listen, since the 2008 recession, it’s been nothing but up, up in a way for injectables, neurotoxins, fillers, and PDO threads. Um, and, and I, I, I, you know, I think this is going to continue for a good while. I think all the injectable comp companies that do tons of research on this, they certainly see that the, this market is going to grow substantially over the next few years. Um, we thought it would take a major hit with, uh, with COVID and, and everything and everything that’s happened, but it’s, it’s been an incredible experience. And I think it’s just going to only get better over time.
So now is the time to get into this. I mean, certainly those people have been waiting for a long time to get into this now is exactly the right time to get into this amen document with Marco. We really appreciate you joining us today. I know our listeners always appreciate your feedback and your enthusiasm and the great work that you’re doing. A F E guys. I encourage you to check it out. We want to thank everyone for listening today. For those of you who are interested in learning more about AFE, you’ve got the website for those of you learning interested in learning more about crystal,
We are, you can go to crystal clear dm.com. That’s crystal clear D m.com. You can check out our exciting promotions, or you can get involved for as little as zero free website in the calendar month. The box to go to website, check it out. Dr. Mouth marker. Thanks again for joining us today. Catch up with you. Thanks for tuning into this week’s episode of true to form brought to you by Candela a leading US-based global medical aesthetic device engineering
Technology that enables practices to provide advanced solutions for a broad range of medical aesthetic applications. To learn more about this week’s podcast sponsor, visit Candela medical.com and to learn more about your podcast provider crystal clear, visit crystal clear dm.com. Be sure to subscribe to the show on all your favorite music apps, including iTunes, Spotify, SoundCloud, and tune in to stay up to date with the newest episode. Thank you for listening.